Posts by Anders Andersen

23

Was Ray Franz Playing The Long Game?

by rory-ks in

jw
friends

i'm just making my way through crisis of conscience for the second time and once again i am struck by the presentation of such detailed records.

letters are shown in full - copies of letters from the branch, and to the branch.

reports are quoted vebatim.

Anders Andersen

I just assumed it was with Ray as with business tycoons and political leaders: they all keep a personal archive.

And Ray probably made some copies from the WT archives before he resigned.

9

A little stock-taking on the JW org. 2017

by Half banana in

the governing body of jws claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the biblical “last days.” .

ok they use bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention.

they think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is.

Anders Andersen

The JW organisation is a nasty delusional, life-sapping, mind-bending, family-splitting doomsday cult

He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’”

“Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

7

Why I believe the quality of my posts has improved.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

" thinking fast and slow" is a self help book by d kahneman.. according to my simplified understanding of the above self-help book we have 2 brains, which the author calls system 1 brain and system 2 brain.. system 1 brain is the brain that make the decisions, that we do as routine.. system 2 brain is the brain that uses conscious reasoning.

thinking that requires conscious effort.. now the interesting thing is system1 brain is often making decisions system 2 brain isn't even aware are being made.

this is because system 2 brain requires conscious reasoning, and thinking that requires effort.

Anders Andersen

I never got around to reading that book, but it's on my radar :-)

25

And then it hit me: we were abused

by Anders Andersen in

from a psychcentral (run by mental health professionals): a familiar item on a list of 7 types of parental abuse :.

spiritual abuse.

has the child experienced:dichotomous thinking – dividing people into two parts: those who agree with the parent and those who don’t.

Anders Andersen

@Diogenesister,

It was that same feeling that made me post this. I never felt abused. I didn't even classify my JW upbringing as abuse until reading that list.

It made me realize that 'stealing' the mind and free will of your child in an authoritative way in name of your religion is abusive. All these children will never be compensated for their lost years, the anxiety and feelings of guilt they had to unlearn, etc.

At the same time David_Jay made me realize that I hadn't thought the topic through well enough. There are other forms of abuse that have way more impact and longer lasting effects than the level of religious abuse children of JW experience.

I never have nightmares, nor can a forum post trigger an avalanche of uninvited feelings about my JW upbringing.

This thread has almost no impact on my emotions; it's foremost an intellectual exercise, an exchange of ideas.

David_Jay participated in this thread at great personal cost, teaching me in the meantime. To be honest I wouldn't have started this thread if I had known it would cause him (or anyone else) to leave. David_Jay always has great input here, he brings balance. I really hope he finds his peace.

25

And then it hit me: we were abused

by Anders Andersen in

from a psychcentral (run by mental health professionals): a familiar item on a list of 7 types of parental abuse :.

spiritual abuse.

has the child experienced:dichotomous thinking – dividing people into two parts: those who agree with the parent and those who don’t.

Anders Andersen

@David_Jay,

As always I very much appreciate your balanced viewpoint.
When starting the topic I had actual JW parents in mind, and how they raise their children, not adult JW and how they are treated and controlled by Watchtower.

I can fully see your point of view on this matter: 'religious abuse' as performed by JW parents pales in comparison to the horrible things some parents do to their children.
Yet I agree with what dubstepped said. There are many forms of child abuse, and the severity varies from 'just a little bit wrong' to 'utterly horrific and evil'. The fact that 'utterly horrific and evil abuse' exists, does not mean 'just a little bit wrong' isn't abuse, even when the two are completely incomparable.

That being said, I really don't care about what label we should apply. We can probably agree that some ways of (mis)treating and raising children is wrong and damaging, whether we call it abuse or not.

It is my opinion that many Jehovah's Witness parents display a huge number of the hallmarks of 'religious abuse'.
Some of it is 'inflicted' by the parents themselves; some of it is inflicted by Watchtower, but it's the parents who allow and endorse it.

Dichotomous Thinking – Jehovah's people vs worldly, godless people.

Elitism – JW children are not allowed to be friends (or even have extra-curricular contact) with non-JW

Submission – Have a chat with the teenagers here or on www.reddit.com/r/exjw and it becomes clear that many JW parents do not tolerate deviating beliefs and idea.

Labeling – Worldly and godless people, apostates, etc.

Public Performance – This one is less applicable I think.

Legalistic – Many JW parents have set views that doesn't allow for individual expression and input from their children.

Segregation – How many JW children are allowed to have contact with DFed aunts, uncles and grandparents?

Blind Obedience – Obey me because Jehovah says you should do so

Abuse of Authority – This one is less prevalent, but many JW parents still force their (almost adult) children to go along to meetings when they don't want to.

Fraud – Not so much, but information is kept from most JW children. All JW children (instinctively) know some information is off-limits...

Granted, most JW parents don't raise their children this way because they are evil or try to mess up their children. On the contrary, they try to do right by their children by raising them as JW.
But so do many other parents who use abusive 'parenting techniques' simply because they don't know what they are doing is abusive and damaging their child.

The way JW raise their children is damaging and can imho rightfully be called abusive. Some of the cult-related issues can take years to process and get rid of, even when the parents were otherwise loving and kind.

25

And then it hit me: we were abused

by Anders Andersen in

from a psychcentral (run by mental health professionals): a familiar item on a list of 7 types of parental abuse :.

spiritual abuse.

has the child experienced:dichotomous thinking – dividing people into two parts: those who agree with the parent and those who don’t.

Anders Andersen

From a Psychcentral (run by mental health professionals): a familiar item on a list of 7 types of parental abuse :

Spiritual Abuse. Has the child experienced:
Dichotomous Thinking – Dividing people into two parts: those who agree with the parent and those who don’t. The parent makes fun of, belittles, and shows prejudice towards other’s beliefs.
Elitism – The parent refuses to associate with people or groups they consider impure or unholy.
Submission – Requires that the child completely adopts the parent’s point of view. There is no room for differing opinions or questioning their authority. Name calling, chastising, and the silent treatment are common maneuvers into compliance.
Labeling – The child is taught at people who don’t comply with the parent’s beliefs are seen as disobedient, rebellious, lacking faith, demons, or enemies of the faith.
Public Performance – Demands perfection and happiness from the child at all times. Religious activities such as attending church have extreme demands, excessive expectations, and rigidity.
Legalistic – Strict adherence to the parent’s rules and regulations are commanded with absolute statements about insignificant issues such as hair color or clothing.
Segregation – Estrangement from extended family members and friends outside of the religion. This includes shunning, alienation, or persecution.
Blind Obedience – Is expected from the child to the point the child is expected to worship the parent.
Abuse of Authority – Parents use their spiritual authority as justification for why the child should completely submit.
Fraud – Parent engages in criminal misconduct or covers up the transgressions of others in the name of their religion. This includes covering up sexual abuse, physical abuse, financial felonies, and misdemeanors.
0-5 items in any section may indicate that a person is being groomed for abuse at a later time. Be mindful of any further escalation.

So what's your score in the 'religious abuse' section? We're you abused?

Do you abuse your own children with regards to religion? (Yes lurkers I'm talking to you).

13

US vs THEM

by Anders Andersen in

i still remember that feeling.

thank god it's gone for good.

i used to be part of us witnesses.

Anders Andersen

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Now I'm gonna go and pick up my car :-p

13

US vs THEM

by Anders Andersen in

i still remember that feeling.

thank god it's gone for good.

i used to be part of us witnesses.

Anders Andersen

I still remember that feeling

Thank God it's gone for good

I used to be part of US Witnesses

Fighting against evil

Set apart from THEM worldy people.

---

My journey into reality began just shortly after I started at a new employer

Then, at a table in a restaurant I looked at my colleagues and realized

There was no longer an artificial divide

They were no longer THEM

And I was no longer part of US.

---

Tonight there was a reunion of my previous workplace

People who don't know I'm not a Witness anymore

Looking around I realized for the first time (again)

They are human just as much

And just as worthy

And just as nice

As I had believed only US to be

The divide was gone.

---

After dinner few continued the party in town

I joined them without hesitation

Went into a casino

'You don't gamble do you?'

Played 10 bucks for fun

And did not miss that awful feeling

US vs THEM

---

Left the car where it was

Reason may be obvious ;-)

Walking home

Past people partying

Passed the place I had my first work Christmas dinner

Passed the Kingdom Hall

Looking back with no regrets

No remorse

No anger

No feelings whatsoever

---

Traced my steps from many a meeting

Hall to home with lovely wife

Hoping one day she will join me

Without her thinking I am one of THEM

Without that artificial divide between her and me.

---

Circuit assembly in a couple of hours

Not for me though

No thank you sir

Just my wife and her parents

And all my late friends

All of US

---

Btw not that it matters but I won 10 bucks ;-)

And in case you didn't notice I had a couple of beers and I'm not really a famous poet (but I could have fooled you guys, right?)

45

New light in this weeks WT?

by Indian Larry in

anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?

for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.

in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.

Anders Andersen

I think the scripture mentioning "the two witnesses, who were killed, and then miraculously come back to life" (not an exact quote) was supposed to have fit into 1914-1919.

By now I wouldn't even be surprised if they say JW didn't preach = 2 dead witnesses fulfilled and at the same time claim they did preach = not in Babylonian captivity.

As long as the two contradicting statements are not in the same paragraph the dubs won't notice anyway...

:-D

45

New light in this weeks WT?

by Indian Larry in

anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?

for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.

in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.

Anders Andersen

I can somewhat understand the logic of coming to 'a new understanding' sometimes. But this is plainly rewriting history.

Old light: during WWI we didn't preach. This is evidence of being captured by Babylon
New light: during WWI we preached zealously. This is evidence that we were not captured by Babylon.

So did they preach or not? Is the new evidence made up, or the old evidence?

How is it even possible that they get new information about their own history, especially now that everyone who actually had first hand experience is dead?